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Just how does one talk to their friends about some of this stuff? - Peak Oil Preparedness
at the end of the world, will you feel fine?
Just how does one talk to their friends about some of this stuff?
I am really very fortunate. I live debt free, and our family has a small business that is very financially stable and makes a profit.  It's costs are directly linked to it's ability to make profit, and as such even in lean years we do fairly well.

I also live in a AAA rated country that has weathered the last financial storm well, and will probably hold together better than most during this current/next one (Australia) - and to top it off I'm in the boom state (of WA) and we all can earn loads of cash here. (Whether the state government spends it's profits from the boom well is another story entirely.)

Where's all this self love leading? Well... I was chatting to my husband the other day in the car (about the book "World Made by Hand") - about who amongst our friends we'd invite to live in our Mad Max world hippy commune. And I realised it isn't just who we'd like to live with us, but who would be in a position where they felt compelled to choose that life. Ie who would be with such limited resources that they would be forced to consider packing up and moving to land they don't own (because we do) to build their own house (probably out of materials we supply, and therefore would retain ownership of the house into the future), in the hope for a better future, which ultimately means giving up their autonomy.

It left me with some questions, and I'd love some thoughts or resources or ideas around the following questions:

When one finds out their friends are doing asinine things (like buying/taking out mortgages on houses just past the peak of the stupidly huge housing boom, in a country that doesn't let you ever walk away from your debt, just as the world finances are sliding lower than a millipedes butt again)... what do you say to them?  

If you were to consider setting up your own transition movement what would you do? How would you structure it? How would you involve others from your friends circles who lived in the city when you lived in a country town? 

Hippy communes. Otherwise known as "living in community for the common good".  In a future world how can you see these working, what sort of social, moral and ethical questions need to be asked, and how does one manage resources, ownership of property etc?
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theheretic From: theheretic Date: December 5th, 2011 05:51 am (UTC) (Link)
Capitalism works best at the small scale. This is important to remember. "Transition movement" is a definition by hippies who failed economics. It's sad, but still a fact of life. The real world is about managing chicken coops, shovelling shit, and dealing with the cost of chicken feed and delivery charges. Few people will accept that the new world order means slower turnaround and reneging on the Rat Race in favor of more reasonable response rates, post oil. That's our future. Law is temporary, and based on enforcement. With no enforcement, law is rather ironic. And that's the world we're moving into, as well. A world with irony and slow turnaround times, and slower shipping. If there's no profit motive in that world, then its all going to fall apart. Lucky for us, capitalism works best at the small scale so profit motive will fix these little things, won't it?
snuck From: snuck Date: December 8th, 2011 07:41 am (UTC) (Link)
There's no such thing as get rich quick, or easily.

Sadly many people I know still buy into standard infinite profit economics and forget the finite issue.
peace873 From: peace873 Date: December 7th, 2011 07:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
My wife and I pursued this years ago when we first figured out how things were going. If you are going to do this, don't worry about your friends. Think of them as the friends you had when the world was different. Make a photo album of them. Then move on. Sure, you should try to warn them -- but only to keep a clear conscience. How to issue that warning is a good question. Maybe over lunch. Give (don't loan) a couple of books for the person to read. Let them know that your family has a plan, but don't tell them what it is, and let them know you won't bug them about it, but that they're welcome to talk to you about it later.

What your friends are going to do is hedge their bets. They're going to assume you are nuts, but they'll slyly squeeze into conversation that if there's an apocalypse, they know where to go: To your place, where you've done all the work to prepare for the worst. So you also need to let them know that your offer has an expiration date and that your plans don't include freeloaders, even if they are close friends or family.

I recommend that your commune's location not be something you share with your friends. Otherwise, when they are completely destitute, and have nowhere else to turn, they'll be at your doorstep and you'll have to figure out what to do about them. Your options will not be attractive. Sure, you will probably have to face those same options with strangers, but they're a lot easier to deal with than former friends.

Regarding the structure of your commune, this thing where you own all the land, and they don't even own their own home, is pretty much feudalism, isn't it? You become the feudal lord, and those people are your serfs. A better structure would be something that they can buy into, like a corporation, but with limitations that protect your vision for the project. You should look into "cohousing". Here's a book on it that I really like: http://www.amazon.com/Cohousing-Contemporary-Approach-Housing-Ourselves/dp/0898155398/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1323287666&sr=8-2

Also, you should consider how your commune can fit into the current socioeconomic structure, as well as the future structure; e.g., http://www.sandhillfarm.org/products.php

Someone always brings this up, but it's an important detail to consider: If you are getting along OK in an area with widespread scarcity, you will eventually have to defend yourselves and your property from physical attack and you need to consider what to do about that very carefully.
snuck From: snuck Date: December 8th, 2011 02:30 am (UTC) (Link)
You have raised some interesting points. We would love to 'recruit' friends but the reality could be very different.

I really don't want to be the Laird of a domain. Or the lady :-) but the land has been in our family for generations and will be kept by trust in the future - maybe we could look at long leaseholds or similar. I have done some surfing about and there are some good models, but how to find one that works... I guess it will really depend on who joins in and so on. Trying to find a partnered approach is my aim.

And I don't think being the 'B' plan is a good basis for partnership either.
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